Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the final episode of our co created series for employer Content Club.
Chris and I have just had a great chat. We talk about the five pillars of employer content creation and these five pillars we think are just super, super important for leadership teams, practitioners, people that are just thinking about getting started on projects moving into next year. So it's if employed content is on your agenda for 2026, we think and we hope this will be of interest to you. So yeah, hope you enjoy it. Thanks.
[00:00:38] Speaker B: So, Chris, hey, it's good we're in the studio at last.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: We are. What a nice studio it is as well.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: It's lovely. It's great. Great to be in London.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: It's great.
[00:00:46] Speaker B: Absolutely, yeah. And look, I think the series that we've done, you know, co created how to build authentic content with your employees, it's been great. We've had some great conversations, haven't we? Let's talk a little bit about, about the series and why we've done it.
[00:01:02] Speaker A: Yeah, well, let's, let's kick off from the top. So I think we're probably about 10 to 12 weeks into the series now.
[00:01:10] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It must be fundamentally the reason we're doing this series and shout out to vouch for getting involved in supporting this and in the team, you know, being great getting involved in this is this thing about why, why this series and why co created?
Because actually it's really important to be able to enable in house teams and enable employees to be able to be part of the content creation process.
[00:01:39] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:01:39] Speaker B: You know, it's not just about turning up to a shoot or being asked like rat a Tat, Tat 5, 10 questions and then going right, we got it is actually how can you in house teams and solo practitioners work with employees to build truly authentic, authentic content and how to do it in an affordable way?
[00:01:58] Speaker A: You know, and something you and I speak a lot about is the fact that a lot of the teams that find themselves responsible for bringing these projects together and bringing the content together, they're understaffed under resourced, they, they've very rarely got, you know, even manageable budgets to work with. So I think one of the reasons certainly for me, and I think you share the same sentiment, but the reason we wanted to like kick off this co created series is that there are ways and means of bringing teams together, communities together, leaning on other parts of a business to lend hand, lend ideas, you know, just get involved in the overall process to, to make it much easier and you can actually squeeze an awful lot more juice out of the fruit than you probably think if you kind of look in. In various other directions. So I think this series and developing the community in the way that we have, I think we're. We're on a really nice kind of road to helping practitioners get to get to that place.
[00:03:02] Speaker B: Very true. I think. And it's no surprise we've come up with a series because of what employer Content Club is about, you know, so, you know, we both felt. We talked about this for a while and it's really great to see actually happening. Is that event in May was fantastic. This thing about talking about content creation strategically and the operational side of things is often a fraction of conversation at events and in communities is me putting my hand up all the time, wanting to ask too many questions. But it's because I felt there wasn't the space for it. So it's really great. It's really great that, you know, there is a need for it and people have said it's great that this has been set up. So I'm really excited see what is coming over the next 12 months.
[00:03:42] Speaker A: So we're obviously here. One of the main reasons we're here today is to talk about the five pillars of employer content creation. So let's just jump straight into it.
I think you were going to maybe kick off with pillar number one. What is it?
[00:03:56] Speaker B: So look, I wanted to talk about this thing about creating the space to think differently. I think everyone's so busy. It's always really easy just to be focused on what's in front of your. Your very nose. And I think especially when it's. You're a solo or you've got a small team and there's lots of demands on your role. But I think giving yourself the space is very underrated. You know, being at the Recruit Marketing Awards when we did that was our second episode of this series talking to somebody and they said like when they finally had some time breathing space, they took a step back and thought about campaign, briefed a team about it and they got some really good content on the back of it. So I think being in the right mindset is really important, which means there's a few things. One is stepping well away from.
From your usual workspace.
[00:04:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:50] Speaker B: And finding like a space in your office, whether at home or. Or at actually at work, where you can be in a more. More creative flow.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:00] Speaker B: I've got this thing called airplane mode, which means notifications off. It's not easy, but it really works. Notifications off.
Find a space. Often I find a space which is preferably like sofa area, nice and comfortable, got a coffee in tow. And straight away, that change of environment, rather being in my normal desk.
[00:05:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:23] Speaker B: Make work so much and I use that for kind of more creative, you know, creative tasks. Yeah. So I think finding different places to work are really important. There's a challenge when you're like, especially if you're at. At work in an office and there's that thing about, you know, wanting to be present.
[00:05:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:41] Speaker B: And not wanting to go off. But it's so valuable because you just. Otherwise you get dragged into the day, the day to day.
So I think that's really important. And that can even be things like, you know, you and the team. And if you haven't got a team, maybe you and someone else in other department you work closely with, just going, let's block out two hours. Maybe it's a long lunch. Block out two hours. I've done it before going to the Tate Modern in London and just with the team and just spending a couple of hours, have a nice lunch and just a different environment. And the things you spark off, off the back of that will go to events. Yeah. You know, the energy you get from in person events if you go to the right ones. Absolutely. Absolutely fantastic.
[00:06:23] Speaker A: And I think there's real beauty as well in, like, not always having a really structured plan. Like. Yeah, I think there can be.
Often there can be a real worry in that. Oh, we, we know we need to create content. We've got all of these actions, we've got all this stuff that needs to get done.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: When.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: When are we going to do it? How are we going to get it done? But like you say, taking a step back, reducing the pressure and treating the process a little bit like a journaling process. So journaling that you would do for your personal life, trying to apply those kind of similar principles to your working life and just thinking about everything that's going on in your, like, orbit. And it might not just be about the job that's in front of you and the tasks that you need to do, because they're often the things that you're thinking of with, with, with your work, but there's so much going on, even in your personal life that's impacting your job and there's. There's just so much going on in your world that still touches the world of work, that is still relevant to the job that you do, that's not necessarily the doing stuff.
And again, those ideas will come to you when you're least expecting them.
[00:07:33] Speaker B: It's true.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: So getting into the habit of maybe you've just jumped off a treadmill. You just like me, maybe attempted a 5K and you've managed to do three and a half. You just jumped off and you're sweating. But. But those ideas are pinging.
Journal them, get them down, note them down, come back to them when it's a good time. But you'll find yourself, you're anything like me in your notes with 15, 20 bullet points and all these ideas are sparking.
[00:07:57] Speaker B: It's amazing.
[00:07:58] Speaker A: Then all of a sudden you can take these things in so many different directions.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm writing a guide at the moment which goes into this in more detail. Yeah. I think actually we should have this as a. As a separate piece. You know, it could be a whole episode in its own right. But yeah, I think that thing about kind of. And again, it's not easy to do. And this is as much advice for myself, a reminder for myself.
[00:08:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:18] Speaker B: Which is, you know, we're kind of in Eisenhower's matrix of prioritization here, aren't we? Which is. I think it's box two, which is the. It's is the important but not urgent.
[00:08:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:29] Speaker B: And actually it's those things that are going to really move things forward. So being for me, that manifests itself in going, what are the say, three absolute core things that need to be done today?
[00:08:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: And of not being worried about putting some things back. Of course there are priorities in terms of other people's priorities may be getting in the way. But ultimately try and stay very focused on those three things that are going to really, really help. So you allocate time for that. If you allocate the space for it as well, then I think then those ideas pop. And like I've. I've done it so many times where it's like you get this deluge of ideas and if you see there with the team as well. Yeah. It gives them the opportunity to get involved. But yeah, let's go on to the next one.
Budget doing better with less.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: Yes. So budgets doing better, doing more with less. I think there's. There's so much we could cover here. But I think the first thing that springs to mind for me is that, you know, there is a common misconception, I think that to kick off any form of employer content strategy project requires 50 stakeholders to agree, requires 50 grand in budget. And it will probably take six months to even kick off from an initial inception. I think the world that we're in today, that's not the world that we're in today. And I think it's a really healthy thing for us to try and just completely move that mindset, you know, in 48 hours from initial inception to delivering something of value.
You could do something in 48 hours.
[00:10:13] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: You know, let alone needing all of these, you know, stakeholder ones. But I think, you know, for me the what's hopefully actionable, you know, with that kind of mindset is probably, you know, if you haven't kicked off any sort of strategy like this before, if it's probably just, just thinking quite small to start with. Because I think the beauty in, you know, breaking down projects and, you know, starting smaller is that you can case study things.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:10:40] Speaker A: And you don't need much budget, you might need buy in, but it's probably from one person, maybe two.
So all of a sudden you've packaged it into this like, what could seem like this enormous task into something really manageable, really quick to execute. And also you'll probably figure out if it was actually a value or not quite quickly as well.
[00:11:01] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:11:01] Speaker A: And if it's not a value, you haven't got it wrong.
You just know that that's a door you probably don't want to knock on again, which is really helpful, isn't it?
Just learning. So it's like, okay, we go to the next door and we knock on that one, we see if we can open it up.
And I know that's really cliche, but I think, you know, there isn't really a bad idea. You can't really execute a rubbish project because it is all part of that learning process. You know, what contents land in, what' not, which channels are engaging, which which aren't, etc. Etc.
So yeah, I think moving into next year, having that kind of doing more with less, you know, not necessarily thinking about, you know, how, how are we going to completely, you know, revolutionize our employer content strategy across our entire business, across all of these different countries, et cetera, et cetera, you know, just really zoning in in, you know, smaller teams, smaller departments, smaller projects, testing, iterating, improving low budgets because you will start unlocking some really, really cool doors. And that's when you can start thinking a little bit bigger. You can take these case studies to other people in the business.
You know, you'll get budgets for bigger projects. You'll start getting buying from other territories and other regions. And the thing should grow arms and legs from, from that point.
[00:12:23] Speaker B: Well, it's like there's lessons here from, like, from business ownership. Isn't there. And you're going to mention a book here, which is Eric Reese's the Lean Startup.
You know, it's great that talks about this thing about iteration and agile approach to, to, to testing and adapting and scaling.
[00:12:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:43] Speaker B: Ideas.
Because if you're going to spend, if you spend a lot of time developing a service. Yeah, but it's being stuck in theory all the time.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:12:53] Speaker B: You're going to want to hope it works.
[00:12:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:55] Speaker B: But often they fail because they're not being stress tested. So this ties in nicely with the. Because episode two is me at Recruit. The Recruit Marketing Awards and conversations around budgets is like, budgets feel tighter.
But actually what it's about is the budgets are actually. They are there.
[00:13:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:15] Speaker B: But there's just that concern about how much they should invest in something. So taking that iterative approach is really important. Going back to your case studies point, this is literally about building a business case. Yeah. And I've done it with a client where we start off by doing zoom calls. Zoom interviews.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:34] Speaker B: And then, you know, capturing content through mobile phones and then ends up doing podcasts and then level up doing documentaries.
But that wouldn't have been possible if we went straight in and going, you need to do this first of all. So bit by bit, you're building a business case and you're not doing the classic employer branding thing, which is, oh, I'm trying to get this budget of £100,000 plus or £50,000 plus or £200,000 plus. Because of course we should be doing employee branding. You need to show return on investment.
So. Yeah, I think that's iterative campaigning.
[00:14:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:13] Speaker B: It's sort of iterative budget spending.
[00:14:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:16] Speaker B: To then test and scale is like really, really important.
[00:14:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. And my, and just kind of leaning into that. My kind of final thought on it is try wherever possible. You know, one thing I've definitely fallen foul of over the years is knowing that engaging content, it is a necessity and it elevates the experience and it engages people in a way. Certainly from a talent attraction point of view, it engages people in a way that you're not able to do by more traditional attraction means. So, but knowing that, but not actually gathering the data and the feedback to, to be able to, to prove that and showcase that to powers that be that might not work in that part of the business and fully understand it, I've started to realize the importance of that. So something that we've been doing certainly over the last, like, you know, more so over the last like 18, 24 months. Is trying to gather that feedback and that data from the right people and packaging that up as part of the case study.
[00:15:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:13] Speaker A: So the people that are involved in the content, you know, over time they should start, you know, feeling just, you know, that there should be a stronger kind of advocacy, kind of, you know, bond to their position in the business.
[00:15:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:28] Speaker A: So keep talking to them about that and how being involved in the content has had an impact on them, whether it's positive or negative. You want like the proper feedback. You don't want to like go biased and you do love it, don't you? Yeah, but, but get honest feedback. But if you can build a case that these people are starting to feel a little bit more belonging in the business, they're feeling more included in their role, their voice is being heard, gather that feedback and on, on, on the same token, you know, if you're using that content in whichever kind of stream in the business for talent attraction or whatever it might be, when you're speaking to the candidates that have maybe engaged with whatever they've engaged with, whether it's a job ad or whatever, whatever it might be, you know, ask the questions, you know, did the content land with you? Yeah. Did it have an impact?
Again, not in a biased way. You want the honest feedback. But all of a sudden you're building not just this business case around the content, but you're getting this really interesting insights that have a huge impact on like whether you can actually grow this thing into the beast you want to grow it in. That's true and I think for a lot of the people, certainly at kind of C suite and board level, which, you know, the people that will eventually unlock the budgets for, for going, you know, much bigger. You know, that's often the information and the data and the insight that they'll, they'll care about. So trying to, you know, certainly moving into next year, that's, that's something I really want to ramp up in my own work.
[00:16:49] Speaker B: Exactly. A good thing is now is, you know, there are ways of lo fi. But no, not doesn't mean low fi. Doesn't mean low quality content is a lo fi ways of capturing content.
Yeah, these are fantastic. I've yeah, filmed kind of mini documentaries off the back of this, of, you know, vlogs off the back of this, but also remote recordings, whether it's audio or video, tapping into software, like to be honest, let's, you know, light vouch.
[00:17:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: You know, where you've got that, you've got that link with guidance about questions to Answer. You film it and then it gets uploaded. Happy days.
[00:17:23] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:17:24] Speaker B: So I think those are the kind of things that could be done, you know, even if it's like a, a conversation where you just literally got your phone and recording audio.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:32] Speaker B: But that can be an article, you know, and then that serialization piece is really important. Yeah. Because then you get to situation where there's confidence in the team, confidence in the business that we, oh, we're doing this kind of thing. And then all of a sudden someone senior goes, well, that's interest. That's, that's great. Well, for us to do more of these.
[00:17:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:50] Speaker B: And do it more efficiently. Maybe let's invest in, in some software to help us capture that content or let's do a full on shoot, you know, but you've tested it to start with you. We could talk about this as a whole episode, but we can. I think that's something to come back to in definitely in, in the new year.
So the classic thing. All right. And when we were speaking to Ali Brown at VCA Animal hospitals in episode three.
[00:18:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: About this, which is this, you've got busy vets who are busy looking after pets. Looking after animals.
[00:18:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:25] Speaker B: That's their priority, of course, as it should be.
How do you get them involved in creating content? Yeah. So the what's in it for them Piece. So let's talk a bit about that. What's your. Because when we're talking and prepping for this, you had some interesting thoughts on it.
[00:18:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I think there's a few different things. I think Ali's approach is brilliant because, you know, I think she very much arrived at that particular project as to, you know, there needs to be, you know, just asking people to do it and then being like, oh yeah, fine. On top of my incredibly busy day job. Yeah, no worries. I'll do something that's completely unnatural to me and something I'm not familiar with at all. So, you know, there needs to be a, you know, what's in it for me element. And I think Ali's approach to initially kind of incentivizing people is brilliant. So I think that's something definitely to, to try and take away from, from this because I think once you incentivize, it might sound as though you're kind of, you know, buying their loyalty into the program. But, but you're not. You know, people often just need that, that little nudge in the right direction. And once they've been incentivized and once they're kind of become comfortable and familiar with the process then they're a lot more likely to, to want to like carry on and, and, and help moving forward. But I think another thing like moving into, moving into next year and the emergence of AI around us and the kind of, you know, the ability for really small teams to, you know, do the work that much larger teams would have been doing kind of even this year and years. Years gone by.
[00:20:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:04] Speaker A: I think it's more important than ever just to try and be as visible as possible.
[00:20:09] Speaker B: True.
[00:20:10] Speaker A: You know, I think being visible, especially moving into 2026, I think is going to be a superpower for people, particularly people that do feel a bit anxious and do feel a bit vulnerable in their job role because of everything that's going on in the world and the uncertainty around, you know, will AI take my job? Will this job be automated or will 50%, 70% of my job be automated in 12 months time? Whatever. I think being visible in any type of role gives you a shield of some description where you're not just an operator in that job role, you're an advocate in the business for, for the business and you're helping the business in so many more ways than just doing what's on your job description.
[00:20:55] Speaker B: Yeah, it's true.
[00:20:55] Speaker A: So I think that is a, that's a, that's a huge thing in, in this particular pillar for me moving into next year.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: Look, it's like the rise of personal branding, you know and they've got this, you know, the rise of corporate influences where literally people are, you know, budgets of. I think it's at $22,000 given to somebody in an organization.
[00:21:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:14] Speaker B: Go and encourage.
[00:21:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:17] Speaker B: Employees to get involved so that investing in is, is, is actually going.
This is an important thing to do.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:25] Speaker B: I think also it's this touching what you've talked about is, is that visibility is.
Is with substance as well, isn't it? It's about going and this is what we love doing. What we're doing is that what we do is we. It's about giving individuals and teams the platform.
[00:21:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: To show what they know about, you know, to share their opinions, to share their expertise. Yes. And to share their stories.
[00:21:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:21:52] Speaker B: And by doing that you're going to help them in their career while also they are helping the business. And I. We've talked about it before, didn't we? About in we're having a coffee this morning is that I was working with occupational therapists.
[00:22:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:08] Speaker B: And after doing some discovery piece. Yes. They wanted to recruit occupation. Other occupational therapists. But it was actually a need to raise the profile of occupational therapy in the organization and in the health and social care sector.
So actually it was great because we go, we understand that your role and your function in the business and in the health and social care isn't quite understood. It's not just barbecues and bingo. It's not. Not just basket weaving. It's so much more. So that really helped frame it because it's like excellent, you know. Yeah. We do want to fly the flag for our profession, but also for our team in this organization so that what's in it for them is really, is really, really important. And I think, you know, that's the way in which you can then help someone go build out your own personal brand, your own portfolio and presence in the organization.
[00:23:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:07] Speaker B: Because it's a bit like hard work and talent.
[00:23:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:11] Speaker B: If you've got both.
[00:23:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:13] Speaker B: Then fantastic. That visibility is so important and when there's so much noise out there that visit, visibility is increasingly important, I think.
[00:23:21] Speaker A: Yeah, really, really good point.
I think on top of that, I think in every single company, it doesn't really matter the size. You know, we're talking from startup scale up through to, you know, large enterprise.
You know, there's, there's disengagement, you know, throughout, at varying levels, obviously, but there is, there's disengagement. Yeah. There are people that are slowly reversing out of companies. Whether you know about it or not, that's going on. And I think another reason for companies to try and become more passionate about this topic and prioritizing this topic is, I think, giving people the space to have a voice.
You know, it almost will become like therapy for a lot of people.
[00:24:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:13] Speaker A: And it will unearth a lot of that disengagement, even though you won't very, you'll very rarely hear it as disengagement. But they, they will be. There'll be notes coming through and if things need to be fixed, they can. If, if the storytelling is done in the right way and the right questions are being asked and the right sort of things are being unearthed, you know, it can really help with, with that process and fixing some of those problems. And I think that's often some of the, like, unspoken stuff that, that we don't often like, talk about or promote so much. But I think it's a really, you know, it's a huge reason why companies should try and become more passionate about this topic.
[00:24:51] Speaker B: Look, it's like, God, as me telling you this, you've got a company called Voice.
[00:24:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:56] Speaker B: It's about you can't underestimate the power of giving somebody a voice.
[00:25:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:01] Speaker B: And that thing about you have to look at, you know, Dan Pink's book around. Is it the surprising truth about what motivates people? This thing about mastery and autonomy, you know, giving people that voice to, to, to share their knowledge and expertise is extremely powerful. Not just in terms of trying to attract the right people into business, but to acknowledge that that person has something to say.
[00:25:23] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:25:24] Speaker B: Often those frustrations, those disengagement stats from the, from the global state of the workplace report by Gallup, which is always a great, great piece of annual research to look at.
[00:25:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:34] Speaker B: Is down to things like that of. No, not enough clarity. But also not being. Having that voice.
[00:25:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:40] Speaker B: To be able to do that. So employer branding teams have a great opportunity to give people that voice.
[00:25:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:47] Speaker B: And the benefits go far beyond just talent attraction.
[00:25:50] Speaker A: Definitely.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: Well, again this is. We've got our episode plan sorted out for next year.
[00:25:54] Speaker A: We' our next five episodes planned in these pillars, I think. Okay. So pillar number four. We've got quick wins.
[00:26:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: The Agile four week sprint.
[00:26:06] Speaker B: Is it possible to create content?
[00:26:08] Speaker A: Can you do it for.
[00:26:10] Speaker B: Absolutely. You know, I think go. It's going back to what we talked about, this thing about having that kind of agile mindset. Yeah. If you're going to want to do like a five day shoot. Yeah, yeah. That might take a bit longer to do. Yeah, absolutely. But you know, there are things you can do to test things which is, you know, have a particular area in mind. Could be often say like find the most, you know, stressed hiring manager or recruiter in the business and go. I think there's something we can do for you and not go. But it's going to cost this amount of money. It's going to cost this amount of time. It's like, I think there's some quick things we can do here.
[00:26:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:55] Speaker B: So I think do that and get together a group of people that have a vested interest in this. Not too many because there's a thing about decision by committee, but by making it like a smaller piece of work means that the risk is lower. Which means people are. Yeah. Okay, let's give this a go. So I think get together a group of people and go, right, well, classic strategy thing. Look at what we need to achieve, look at who the audience is and let's see what is that bridge between where we are now and where we want to be. Yeah.
Okay. Right, let's then create something and use your people. It's like, so Ali talks about this, Police now talks about this in, in episode four, which is about lean on the individuals in your team. If you're a one person, you know, employ a brand or a small team, it can't all rely on, on yourselves.
So call upon people who do the job.
[00:27:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:54] Speaker B: Call upon people, have a vested interest in, in those vacancies being filled.
[00:27:58] Speaker A: Absolutely, yeah.
[00:27:59] Speaker B: And get ideas from them. Because not only does that give you the freedom going, it's not all down to me.
[00:28:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:05] Speaker B: Is that you're empowering and that's why we say co create. Co created. Is that that thing, feeling of partnership I think is really important.
[00:28:12] Speaker A: And I think another reason that that is so important, Chris, is that like, if you, if you gave me a topic to be passionate about, like, it's probably not going to land. You know, if you ask me to speak about something that I'm passionate about, then it's gonna land. Yeah, because, because, you know, I've come up with the idea, but it's also something that's probably been kind of bubbling for a while and it's something I want to get out and talk about. And, and I think it's such good advice because like you say, it can be so much pressure for these teams to come up with all of the ideas and then to try and kind of, you know, put those ideas onto other people for them to execute. But bringing them into the process and giving them the autonomy to ideate and execute.
You know, I think it's surprising how many people you'll see kind of jumping up and down and wanting to help out in that part of the process because they will ultimately start talking about things that mean a lot to them.
And I think back on your point, I'm with you entirely, you know, on those much smaller kind of case studied examples like when, when you're a business of the size of VCA with, with Ali, you know, you need, you need scalable technology, you know, to be, you know, vouch works for them brilliantly. Capturing the tech, capturing the content, being able to, you know, using AI to repurpose content, distribute content, all that stuff.
If you're starting much smaller and you haven't got these budgets, it's not a problem, you know, creating a WhatsApp group in that, in that group that you were talking about, you know, the line manager or maybe an ambassador in that team creates the, you know, the engineering Manchester, you know, WhatsApp group, everyone commits to capturing one or two pieces of content. Maybe they have just jumped off the treadmill maybe they are walking around the park, they're walking their dog. Whatever it might be, they're at work, whatever, it doesn't really matter. You know, you guys agree, you come up with the ideas collectively, but all commit to uploading 1, 2, 3 pieces of content. It might be a voice note, it might be a video, it might just be, you know, a piece of text about something that you, you really feel strongly about. Whatever it is, you know, all of a sudden 30 days passes and there's like 20 pieces of content in this thing and it's only in a WhatsApp group. But there's so much you can then do.
So much you can then do. You started the process of something really, really powerful and really special.
So like you and I always talk about like there aren't really barriers to entry. I think there's just like barriers to ideas.
[00:30:45] Speaker B: Yeah. It's the mindset which is.
[00:30:46] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:30:47] Speaker B: But especially I think with, you know, what you're talking about. The WhatsApp group. Absolutely. Is something I've done before. It's fantastic. And it's. Yes, from that you're going to get some, you're going to get content for video, for audio, but also for written. Written content as well, but also when it gets the ideation process as well. So yes, you'll have a say a kickoff meeting. But look, there are enough meetings in the world. Yeah. Yeah. And we know back to back to back to back to back meetings aren't necessarily the most productive way of living a working life. You know, so. So actually I found, I've, I've done it where actually not had to do meetings because on a WhatsApp group we've worked asynchronously of voice notes.
[00:31:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:30] Speaker B: So based on what we talked about, I think this is my idea. What do you think about it?
[00:31:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:35] Speaker B: Oh, that's not bad. It's like. Oh yeah.
That what you think is really powerful because it's like it's okay to have a half idea.
[00:31:41] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:42] Speaker B: So what do you think? And then someone comes back and it can be doing it where they're, you know, just gone out for a walk. Oh, I've been thinking about that. But the barrier to doing that is, is disappears.
[00:31:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:52] Speaker B: It's not just a meeting thing is those found moments.
[00:31:54] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:31:55] Speaker B: In your day to day. And that does mean that actually you are creating like mini focus groups.
[00:32:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:01] Speaker B: In something like a WhatsApp group.
[00:32:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:03] Speaker B: You are also using it as a way of creating content and even like, you know, kicking off A discussion which is. Right, we're going to talk about this. What's your view about this audio note?
[00:32:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:14] Speaker B: What's your view about this audio note?
[00:32:16] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:32:17] Speaker B: Just like this is kid in the candy store stuff, in terms of the content you get from that.
[00:32:21] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:32:22] Speaker B: Again, it was something we revisit.
[00:32:24] Speaker A: And I think, and I think a really nice thing about that as well, going back to the previous disengagement point, is because you're all being really open with each other about all of these different topics.
You know, if there is disengagement or people are a little bit unhappy about a situation, you know, through that really open conversation and that dialogue that you're exchanging, things will start being on earth and you'll be able to fix things, you know, probably six months faster than you would if that was closed down and everyone was just getting on with their day jobs at their desk, doing, doing the doing. So I think there are so many reasons to, like, prioritize those kind of strategies.
[00:33:01] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:33:03] Speaker A: So I think that takes us to the final pillar, Chris, Pillar number five.
[00:33:06] Speaker B: AI means that one can be a lot more efficient with things.
But is it about being more efficient in the next 12 months, or is it about building experience more? Because in the world where, you know, AI is making things a lot easier, but also there's obviously criticisms about things like AI slope, you know, what is the role of experience in that?
[00:33:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's a really interesting point. AIs, we've been surrounded by the efficiencies that AI affords us for a number of years now.
I really feel that 2025 has been the year where it's like, it's been everywhere. Every nook and cranny has, like had AI and automation and efficiency woven into it in some way, shape or form. So I think next year where companies are already maturing to processes and maturing to the efficiencies that AI can, can give you, I think people that are more focused on experience with, with the help of AI, definitely. It's not at the like, it's not like one or the other. It's definitely not. But I think so many people, leaders, companies will be almost exclusively focused on efficiency next year.
Reducing team sizes, automating this process over this process over this process, that I'm pretty convinced that experience will take a hit next year and it will have to pick back up because I think people will start seeing the negative impact that those old, you know, those crazy efficiencies that they're working in many ways but taking the hit on experience over that efficiency, I think will really hurt people. So. So I think doubling down on experience moving into next year, making sure that you're delivering experiences that cut through the noise. You know, experiences that are really well thought out and they're. They've been brainstormed amongst passionate people with the efficiencies of AI woven into that process. Definitely using some automation and AI to help with that process. But I think, you know, doubling down on, making sure the experience that you're putting out into those, you know, to those audiences, I think moving into next year is more important than ever because there is going to be so much efficiency noise over here where people are looking to do more with less, you know, squeeze loads more juice out of the fruit with smaller budgets.
But those people that have really focused in that one lane, they will, I think, really close the curtain on experience. And I think there's a huge competitive advantage to doubling down on experience in 2026.
[00:36:01] Speaker B: It's like, look, I was at a tech conference a couple of months ago at a round table. We're talking about how organizations have implemented AI, not just in the employer branding and TA space, but how they're using AI in their organizations. And kind of, I thought I had to say something is like, wait a minute, is AI. There's a danger that AI is. Is going to be how we can we do more, but it's. It's not. It's about how can we do better.
[00:36:29] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:36:30] Speaker B: Going back to the thing about not doing more with less, but doing better with less. So that experience pieces is really important. I think it's a bit like the, you know, so, you know, Mr. Beast, he says, and it's so true, is that people see the effort that has been put into producing content.
That in itself is a very powerful thing.
[00:36:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:52] Speaker B: Because actually there's a. Is a respect for someone's time that that content has been created, whichever levels of production quality we're looking at here. Yeah.
So that experience thing, I think, yes, you could be that most efficiently run operation as possible. But if the content that's going out there is just me. Yeah. Is bland. It's a hat tip to employ a bland podcast. You love your podcast.
If you get emails back straight away.
[00:37:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:22] Speaker B: You know, if you're in a candidate journey, it's like, that's not. That's not enough.
[00:37:27] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:37:28] Speaker B: It needs to be. Oh, wow. Oh, that's good. Oh, they've decided to send me an email with a video of one of the senior leaders or the division that I might join.
[00:37:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:40] Speaker B: Talking about why he does what he does.
[00:37:42] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. And, and I agree, I, I agree, you know, wholeheartedly with that and, and I think as well next year, and I've already seen it this year, but you know, AI and the efficiencies that it gives you, you know, there'll be a huge rise in the kind of amplification of vanity metrics. It's like, oh, you know, we've implemented this piece of tech, that piece of tech, automated this, this and this. And we now post a job role and we get 200 applications in 24 hours.
And it's.
But, but, but there are, there are C suite execs that think, wow, that's amazing. Yeah, exactly. This is working.
[00:38:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:24] Speaker A: And it's like those kind of vanity metrics are so dangerous in our industry. You know, that, that isn't efficient, that's not good process unless you've got some exceptional way of handling those applications in a, in a period of time.
[00:38:41] Speaker B: It's extremely expensive and time consuming.
[00:38:43] Speaker A: But you're probably not reaching the right people.
You're probably not handing off those candidates in, in the best way possible. You're probably not doing your employer brand any favors at all. So I think it's also about, you know, thinking about the metrics and the, you know, what's important to you and what, what is really important and what is ego, massaging, vanity and just making sure you, you know, you're not over here too much.
[00:39:10] Speaker B: So that's our five. Yeah, it's gone, it's gone super quickly. There's a lot of things we can tap on, I think, and over the next 12 months we'll be going to these elements, these pillars in more detail for sure. But yeah, really enjoyed it. It's great, it's great to get you in the studio.
[00:39:24] Speaker A: Always good catching up.
[00:39:25] Speaker B: First time actually doing an episode in the studio in person, it's under the bright lights. Yeah, it's a good example actually of like, you know, we booked out this fantastic studio.
[00:39:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:34] Speaker B: For an hour, you know, so these are ways which you can, you can find really agile and cost effective ways of, of capturing content.
[00:39:43] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:39:45] Speaker B: But yeah, mate, it's been good, it's.
[00:39:46] Speaker A: Been really good fun. Always is.
[00:39:48] Speaker B: Always a pleasure.
[00:39:49] Speaker A: Yeah, thank you.
